Discussion:
Ambiguities in AI Specs
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Xingliang Lou
2010-06-20 01:37:54 UTC
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Our team has a few questions about the AI.

1.

For the 3rd condition for ordering-up:

"2-3 trump including a right bower and an off-suit ace".

If a hand has FOUR trumps including a right bower and an off-suit ace,
does it fall into this category?
Also, what if we have TWO off-suit aces?

2.

For the 3rd condition for going alone

"right bower, 3 trump and an off-suit ace"

Do you mean 3 trumps, PLUS the right bower? Or 3 trumps, INCLUDING the
right bower?

3.

For the 4th condition for going alone

"right bower, at least 3 trump, and double-suited"

Similar to 2. Does the 3 trumps INCLUDE the right bower?
Also, for the double-suited condition, does the LEFT BOWER count as a
SEPARATE SUIT?
What if the computer has ONLY trumps without left bower, in other words,
his hand is SINGLE-SUITED. Would that satisfy this condition?

4.

When the players are bidding for a suit, does the computer assume EACH
suit (other than the kitty suit) to be the trump and see if the
conditions for ordering-up and going alone are met?

What if the computer has 4 aces. In this case, many suits would be valid
suits to bid. Which one would the computer choose?
Xingliang Lou
2010-06-20 01:45:43 UTC
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Post by Xingliang Lou
Our team has a few questions about the AI.
1.
"2-3 trump including a right bower and an off-suit ace".
If a hand has FOUR trumps including a right bower and an off-suit ace,
does it fall into this category?
Also, what if we have TWO off-suit aces?
2.
For the 3rd condition for going alone
"right bower, 3 trump and an off-suit ace"
Do you mean 3 trumps, PLUS the right bower? Or 3 trumps, INCLUDING the
right bower?
3.
For the 4th condition for going alone
"right bower, at least 3 trump, and double-suited"
Similar to 2. Does the 3 trumps INCLUDE the right bower?
Also, for the double-suited condition, does the LEFT BOWER count as a
SEPARATE SUIT?
What if the computer has ONLY trumps without left bower, in other words,
his hand is SINGLE-SUITED. Would that satisfy this condition?
4.
When the players are bidding for a suit, does the computer assume EACH
suit (other than the kitty suit) to be the trump and see if the
conditions for ordering-up and going alone are met?
What if the computer has 4 aces. In this case, many suits would be valid
suits to bid. Which one would the computer choose?
One more question

When the computer player chooses a discard, what if his hand has ALL
trumps? Does he discard the lowest trump? The assignment specs did not
mention this case.
Joanne Atlee
2010-06-20 15:46:57 UTC
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Post by Xingliang Lou
One more question
When the computer player chooses a discard, what if his hand has ALL
trumps? Does he discard the lowest trump? The assignment specs did not
mention this case.
If "discarding", then the player plays the lowest card in its hand. So
yes, play the lowest trump.



Jo
Joanne Atlee
2010-06-20 15:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xingliang Lou
"2-3 trump including a right bower and an off-suit ace".
If a hand has FOUR trumps including a right bower and an off-suit ace,
does it fall into this category?
Also, what if we have TWO off-suit aces?
The rules are minimum requirements. So, read them as

"number of trump <=2"
"there exists an off-suit ace"
Post by Xingliang Lou
2. For the 3rd condition for going alone
"right bower, 3 trump and an off-suit ace"
Do you mean 3 trumps, PLUS the right bower? Or 3 trumps, INCLUDING the
right bower?
The right bower is one of the 3 trump cards.
Post by Xingliang Lou
3. For the 4th condition for going alone
"right bower, at least 3 trump, and double-suited"
Similar to 2. Does the 3 trumps INCLUDE the right bower?
Also, for the double-suited condition, does the LEFT BOWER count as a
SEPARATE SUIT?
The left bauer is among the trump cards; it is not a separate suit.
Post by Xingliang Lou
What if the computer has ONLY trumps without left bower, in other words,
his hand is SINGLE-SUITED. Would that satisfy this condition?
This condition should probably have been included (i.e., a maximum of
two suits), but it was not.

In the executable our_euchre, the rule is satisfied if the hand has
exactly two suits.
Post by Xingliang Lou
4. When the players are bidding for a suit, does the computer assume EACH
suit (other than the kitty suit) to be the trump and see if the
conditions for ordering-up and going alone are met?
Yes, it considers all suits except the suit of the card on the top of
the kitty.
Post by Xingliang Lou
What if the computer has 4 aces. In this case, many suits would be valid
suits to bid. Which one would the computer choose?
Good question. This was specified in part of the project description
that was crossed out.

In the second bidding phase, if the player's hand satisfies the above
criteria in two suits, the player will bid the suit whose enumerated
type has a lower value. (This choice is to facilitate automated testing;
it has nothing to do with Euchre strategy.)
Brian Attwell
2010-06-21 04:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Xingliang Lou
"2-3 trump including a right bower and an off-suit ace".
If a hand has FOUR trumps including a right bower and an off-suit ace,
does it fall into this category?
Also, what if we have TWO off-suit aces?
The rules are minimum requirements. So, read them as
"number of trump <=2"
"there exists an off-suit ace"
Post by Xingliang Lou
2. For the 3rd condition for going alone
"right bower, 3 trump and an off-suit ace"
Do you mean 3 trumps, PLUS the right bower? Or 3 trumps, INCLUDING the
right bower?
The right bower is one of the 3 trump cards.
Post by Xingliang Lou
3. For the 4th condition for going alone
"right bower, at least 3 trump, and double-suited"
Similar to 2. Does the 3 trumps INCLUDE the right bower?
Also, for the double-suited condition, does the LEFT BOWER count as a
SEPARATE SUIT?
The left bauer is among the trump cards; it is not a separate suit.
If this is always true, then (JH,10H,JS,10S,JC) is double-suited with S
as trump, since JC is the left bower and therefore also trump. The right
bower is included, so condition 4 for going-alone is satisfied and
condition 3 for calling trump is partially satisfied. So, the player
should go-alone. But, the reference doesn't do this: (note player 3 in
seed 99):

Players 1 and 3 have 0 points while Players 2 and 4 have 0 points.
Player 1 deals
The top card on the kitty is: 9S
HumanPlayer 2 (QS,KH,AC,AH,9D) > Player 2 passes
Computer (CMA) Player 3 (JH,10H,JS,10S,JC) > Player 3 passes
Computer (CMA) Player 4 (10D,JD,KC,9H,10C) > Player 4 passes
Computer (CMA) Player 1 (KS,QC,AD,QH,QD) > Player 1 passes

Is the left bower therefore not considered to be of the trump suit in
some situations?
Post by Xingliang Lou
What if the computer has ONLY trumps without left bower, in other
words, his hand is SINGLE-SUITED. Would that satisfy this condition?
This condition should probably have been included (i.e., a maximum of
two suits), but it was not.
In the executable our_euchre, the rule is satisfied if the hand has
exactly two suits.
Post by Xingliang Lou
4. When the players are bidding for a suit, does the computer assume
EACH suit (other than the kitty suit) to be the trump and see if the
conditions for ordering-up and going alone are met?
Yes, it considers all suits except the suit of the card on the top of
the kitty.
Post by Xingliang Lou
What if the computer has 4 aces. In this case, many suits would be
valid suits to bid. Which one would the computer choose?
Good question. This was specified in part of the project description
that was crossed out.
In the second bidding phase, if the player's hand satisfies the above
criteria in two suits, the player will bid the suit whose enumerated
type has a lower value. (This choice is to facilitate automated testing;
it has nothing to do with Euchre strategy.)
Joanne Atlee
2010-06-21 18:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Attwell
Post by Xingliang Lou
"2-3 trump including a right bower and an off-suit ace".
If a hand has FOUR trumps including a right bower and an off-suit ace,
does it fall into this category?
Also, what if we have TWO off-suit aces?
The rules are minimum requirements. So, read them as
"number of trump <=2"
"there exists an off-suit ace"
Post by Xingliang Lou
2. For the 3rd condition for going alone
"right bower, 3 trump and an off-suit ace"
Do you mean 3 trumps, PLUS the right bower? Or 3 trumps, INCLUDING the
right bower?
The right bower is one of the 3 trump cards.
Post by Xingliang Lou
3. For the 4th condition for going alone
"right bower, at least 3 trump, and double-suited"
Similar to 2. Does the 3 trumps INCLUDE the right bower?
Also, for the double-suited condition, does the LEFT BOWER count as a
SEPARATE SUIT?
The left bauer is among the trump cards; it is not a separate suit.
If this is always true, then (JH,10H,JS,10S,JC) is double-suited with S
as trump, since JC is the left bower and therefore also trump. The right
bower is included, so condition 4 for going-alone is satisfied and
condition 3 for calling trump is partially satisfied. So, the player
should go-alone. But, the reference doesn't do this: (note player 3 in
Players 1 and 3 have 0 points while Players 2 and 4 have 0 points.
Player 1 deals
The top card on the kitty is: 9S
HumanPlayer 2 (QS,KH,AC,AH,9D) > Player 2 passes
Computer (CMA) Player 3 (JH,10H,JS,10S,JC) > Player 3 passes
Computer (CMA) Player 4 (10D,JD,KC,9H,10C) > Player 4 passes
Computer (CMA) Player 1 (KS,QC,AD,QH,QD) > Player 1 passes
Is the left bower therefore not considered to be of the trump suit in
some situations?
There was an error in the our_euchre executable. This problem is now
fixed (as of 21 June 11:00AM).


Jo

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